Transformers: Fall of Cybertron Gameplay Roundtable Video

Whoa. We knew Metroplex was big, but two and half times the size of Omega Supreme is just massive!

This sounds so good. I love how they are dealing with Grimlock and his rage>transform deal. I was kind of worried of it being just a little boring if you could just be in alt mode all the time with him... kudos, highmoon. Got a tiny bit of mechlab customization too it sounds, always great. I think colours are going to be sort of limited again, since he mentioned how the colours are the factions(?).

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

wigglez323 wrote:I could dig a BW game.

They made two Beast Wars games.

Three counting the N64 version.

You shouldn't. That's like counting the 360 and PS3 versions of War for Cybertron as separate games.

Not when the N64 version has different features and characters. Plus a a richer story mode and a different set of endings. The two may be similar, but they have several notable differences that make make them nowhere near as identical to each other as the 360 and PS3 version WFC are.

I only ever played one of the two (PS1, I think) but how did the gameplay differ? A slightly different playable cast and different special features does not a new game make. They're just two versions of the same game. Like the console and DS versions of WfC.

The PS1 game is an over-the-head fighter, wile the N64 game is a sideview formatted fighter. The PS1 game assigns characters per match, while the N64 game lets the players choose whoever they want to be. The N64 game includes Megatron X in its story mode, where he is absent in the PS1 game. The PS1 game has a vague ending for story mode, while the N64 game and many diverse and very detailed textual endings for each playable character in story mode.

Though, the console and DS versions of WFC is a good comparison to this, as the DS WFC games are also very different from the console versions of WFC.

I know there were BW games. But I didn't like them back then either. Arena fighter games aren't really my thing

gameinformer's Transformers: Fall of Cybertron coverage continues with a special edition podcast with High Moon Studios Matt Tieger. Click here to listen.

As part of our month-long online coverage of our cover story for Transformers: Fall of Cybertron, we proudly present this special edition podcast. Listen in as Fall of Cybertron's game director Matt Tieger answers Game Informer reader questions about High Moon's upcoming robotic blockbuster.

Jeese, a podcast? I got enough at the roundtable. It's either more game footage/reveals or I'm not interested... getting tired of hearing how great its going to be when I have to wait a year to actually play it.

Before I hear the podcast, I gotta ask why is Jazz's mough all cracked apart?

He looks like ROTF Alice during mid-transformation.

Sabrblade wrote:Before I hear the podcast, I gotta ask why is Jazz's mough all cracked apart?

He looks like ROTF Alice during mid-transformation.

You wanna know how he got these scars? His father was...a drinker...and a fiend.

In all seriousness, I guess their going for the more robotic-looking facial design.

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Before I hear the podcast, I gotta ask why is Jazz's mough all cracked apart?

He looks like ROTF Alice during mid-transformation.

You wanna know how he got these scars? His father was...a drinker...and a fiend.

In all seriousness, I guess their going for the more robotic-looking facial design.

Haha, yea they seemed to have gone a little overboard with the detail in the face in a wierd way. But i'm sure its so that when you normally view Jazz in game where your not super close up, it'll help distinguish parts of his face better in the blur of action.

MINDVVIPE wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Before I hear the podcast, I gotta ask why is Jazz's mough all cracked apart?

He looks like ROTF Alice during mid-transformation.

You wanna know how he got these scars? His father was...a drinker...and a fiend.

In all seriousness, I guess their going for the more robotic-looking facial design.

Haha, yea they seemed to have gone a little overboard with the detail in the face in a wierd way. But i'm sure its so that when you normally view Jazz in game where your not super close up, it'll help distinguish parts of his face better in the blur of action.

But all other FoC pics of Jazz show him with a normal-looking mouth.

Sabrblade wrote:

MINDVVIPE wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Before I hear the podcast, I gotta ask why is Jazz's mough all cracked apart?

He looks like ROTF Alice during mid-transformation.

You wanna know how he got these scars? His father was...a drinker...and a fiend.

In all seriousness, I guess their going for the more robotic-looking facial design.

Haha, yea they seemed to have gone a little overboard with the detail in the face in a wierd way. But i'm sure its so that when you normally view Jazz in game where your not super close up, it'll help distinguish parts of his face better in the blur of action.

But all other FoC pics of Jazz show him with a normal-looking mouth.

Looks the same to me.

Guess I didn't get a close enough look at it.

Still don't like it, though.

Sabrblade wrote:Guess I didn't get a close enough look at it.

Still don't like it, though.

I was just lookin at my collection the other day, and damn, does Generations Jazz have a sick headsculpt. He looks so freakin' badass! Especially with the speakers deployed on each shoulder I don't mind the complex face of the game version though.

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Before I hear the podcast, I gotta ask why is Jazz's mough all cracked apart?

He looks like ROTF Alice during mid-transformation.

You wanna know how he got these scars? His father was...a drinker...and a fiend.

Dude it's 2011; Dark Night references are so 09.

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Before I hear the podcast, I gotta ask why is Jazz's mough all cracked apart?

He looks like ROTF Alice during mid-transformation.

You wanna know how he got these scars? His father was...a drinker...and a fiend.

Dude it's 2011; Dark Night references are so 09.

I believe you are referring to Dark Knight


*shoots himself for saying that*

MINDVVIPE wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Before I hear the podcast, I gotta ask why is Jazz's mough all cracked apart?

He looks like ROTF Alice during mid-transformation.

You wanna know how he got these scars? His father was...a drinker...and a fiend.

Dude it's 2011; Dark Night references are so 09.

I believe you are referring to Dark Knight


*shoots himself for saying that*

*Sigh* That's what I get for trying to be funny after 2 AM

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Before I hear the podcast, I gotta ask why is Jazz's mough all cracked apart?

He looks like ROTF Alice during mid-transformation.

You wanna know how he got these scars? His father was...a drinker...and a fiend.

Dude it's 2011; Dark Night references are so 09.

Dark Knight references are forever. Until Dark Knight Rises comes out and almost invariably give us a whole new mess of memes.

Sabrblade wrote:Guess I didn't get a close enough look at it.

Still don't like it, though.

Me neither, actually. It's fine for, say, the movie designs, where it's all a bunch of parts that shift and move as the Transformer talks or emotes. But here, it just looks like parts for the sake of parts, just to look more robotic.

Unless he got suckerpunched in the jaw and hasn't repaired it yet or something, I won't be happy about it.

dp

Podcast Q&A summary

Q1: Does one have to play WFC in order to understand the FoC story?
A1: Nope. But doing so may give you an extra level of enjoyment.

Q2: Which TFs did not make it into the game, and where would they want the series to head next?
A2: Arcee. Being a female character, her animation skeleton would have required twice as much animation, which was too much for their system. Also, no Primus (as Cybertron's robot mode) or Unicron. As for where the series would go, there's a big gap of time between the TFs leaving Cybertron and arriving on Earth, so there's that to explore. And it'd be awesome to flesh out the era of the Thirteen, either Knights of the Old Republic-style or RPG style. Then again, Hasbro is very precious with that timeperiod.

Q3: Will there be any FoC toys?
A3: Hasbro has been quiet about that, so it's not yet known.

Q4: Were there parts of the FoC game written to connect to the Prime cartoon?
A4: No. There are a couple of things that they did to connect with Prime, but not necessarily in the story. They create the story, and then work with Hasbro to make sure it doesn't violate what goes on in the Prime series. But they did grab some things from Prime in the visual development of certain things like Cliffjumper's head, Optimus's gun, some ship designs, some melee weapons, etc. etc.

As an aside, they reiterated that the show and the two games are seen as part of the same overall continuity.

Q5: Any thoughts about single-player DLC for this game?
A5: There have been talks. They're still going through the finances of that that and haven't committed to anything yet. But they are interested and are trying to see where they're going with this.

Q6: With Teletraan I being in this game, will gamers be able to access it and learn some history info of the TFs in this continuity? Will there be any attempts in this game to decompress the narrative and add some text files (like in Arkham Asylum and Mass Effect) to expand out the lore for those who are interested.
A6: Short answer, "Yes." WFC had an okay story that didn't need to expand on the things that most non-TF fans wouldn't care about. But, there is still that hunger for that next layer down of backstory, audio logs, text logs, concept art, that was not satisfied with WFC. So, they're looking at a number of ways to give this extra info in this game should it be wanted. Don't know if it'll be done through Teletraan, but they're looking at several options.

Q7: Is Megatron fought by the player as an Autobot?
A7: A straight answer for this wasn't permitted to be given. Instead, it was described how Megatron plays an important role in the game as a character who's to be seen from many perspectives, as are a lot of the charactrs in the game. The first game was an Autobot story and a Decepticon story, while this game is a Cybertron story. It's about Cybertron itself and many play key roles of importance in its story.

Q8: More Starscream?
A8: There is definitely more Starscream in this one.

Q9: With the Insecticons showing up, will they all be mindless swarming bots or will some individual Insecticon characters (a la Bombshell/Shrapnel/Kickback) be featured?
A9: The Insecticons are in the game, but as far as for any named Insecticons, that's classified. Wait and see.

Q10: Wheeljack's presence: confirm or deny?
A10: Again, can't say yes or no.

Q11: Do all the characters that have been shown up to this point cover the basis of all the playable characters in the game?
A11: Absolutely not. There are more characters than what have been talked about. There will be more playable characters released as they go through.

As an aside, Matt Tieger asked how many Transformers there are. They figured since there's so many, at least several thousands, that they can't possibly please everyone by putting everyone's favorites in the game since there's just too many to pick from.

Q12: In WFC, one often ran out of ammo too quickly. How will this be improved in FoC?
A12: Several ways to fix this. In the first game, there wasn't enough ammo, and it wasn't easy to find. This time, however, the equipment sizes are significantly larger so you can carry more ammo with you. The ammo design has been changed and have been put in more easy-to-find places. And, the AI enemies will now drop ammo when you kill them. But they did not add a self-fulfilling ammo overheat system for the guns. Plus, there is also now the Teletraan Store placed all throughout the game's world where you can buy and upgrade weapons, and one upgrade you can buy will automatically refill all your ammo every time you go into the store.

Q13: Will there be a cover system in this game?
A13: No.

Q14: What new and interesting things are being done with boss fights and boss characters in this game? Will there be boss fights in FoC?
A14: There are some that are different from what would be called a traditional boss, but different in a good way. The experiences in this game may surprise people. They're what one might call "Transformer-y".

Q15: Difficult question. Will FoC have the same campaign length as WFC, or longer?
A15: Depends on the person. Some felt WFC's campaign was too short, while others felt it was too long. It might be about the same as WFC, but can't say for sure.

Q16: This game looks a lot more colorful than the first. What drove this design decision?
A16: They wanted to go places where they haven't been before and really push what the visuals of Cybertron could be. They really put a lot more effort into the looks of all kinds of metals that have opened up the color palette a little bit. And when making a game like this, it really needs that kind of color variety.

Q17: Will the game come to PC?
A17: Sadly, no PC version. They focused on delivering the highest quality experience as possible, which is in the console department. They wanted to support the PC community, but they weren't able to do so like they wanted to. They wish it were possible and are bummed about this, but at the same time it was a hard decision and they feel it was the right call.

Q18: What is High Moon doing to increase online mutliplayer longevity for FoC to make gamers play it longer than WFC?
A18: Beg them to play it longer. But seriously, they're trying to address the issues people had with the online multiplayer of WFC and figure pout how to make the community even greater than before.

Q19: Will one be able to customize weapons in multiplayer? Will the customizations of single player be able to carry over into multiplayer? Will Dinobots be playable in multiplayer?
A19: Can't answer about the customization of weapons because nothing is certain of it yet. for Dinobots, their skeletons are completely different form the other TFs. Their scale is huge compared to the others. Putting them with the others would detract from the gameplay experience. If they were scaled down to be better match with the others, then they would look silly (Grimlock would be a tiny T-Rex). And Grimlock cannot transform willingly, so it wouldn't work well in multiplayer. So, it's better that they aren't in multiplayer. It's not that it's a bad idea, but that it just can't be done.

Q20: What sort of customizations will there be for multiplayer?
A20: Four different classes: cars, trucks, tanks, planes. Each consists of six parts: head, chest, upper arm, lower arm, legs, (he couldn't remember the last part). You pick whichever parts you want. They'll all unlock as you play through the game and level up. The customization system is very complex. People spent hours making their own TFs out of these parts and colors. Severely better than the not-so-thorough WFC version.

Q21:Any possibility of AI bots in multiplayer?
A21: Said too much already about multiplayer, so this was not answered. But, they will make announcements later near the end of the year giving more info on the game.

I'm excited. I want to know more about the customization on multiplayer. it said it was severely different, so I'm getting excited. Customizing 6 different parts of the body would be awesome. I just hope that it's not shown super cool and then dull on the final copy like in WFC where they had alot of colors to choose from and then give us only 5. I feel the gameplay will be the same as WFC but I'm more excited about the customization of the characters

Time for me to touch and go on my absence... >: )

For Q21, I'm certain the sixth component Tieg couldn't remember was "wheels," which he mentioned in the roundtable.

I'm quite happy that in the roundtable Tieg brought up there is no autobot/decepticon in multiplayer, chassis wise. Colors differentiate, which is much better IMO. I remember Varia brought up that the optics and energon lines etc. could be the differentiating components, but I think I can live with the color restrictions.

One thing I am disappointed with is that the chosen parts for mp affect stats. I do not like that because I'm going to be fighting with myself for aesthetics versus stats. Uncharted 3 does fine without stats for character/parts choices, but again, my opinion. I'm sure it will help open up more differences between everyone in MP, and for that, I may be grateful.

Also very happy to hear the number of characters so far for chassis, and that aforementioned parts are unlockable versus all immediately available. Hope the level cap is higher as well. It gives some people reason to keep playing, as long as there's another level to reach. I wouldn't mind if they kept Prime mode as well. I thought that was a great idea on their part.

On AI: happy to hear all they said about that. Sounds like they're going in the right direction; hope they pull it off. Also very happy with what we saw for cutscenes, and level/character transitions. Very, very, exciting to me, and helps justify the lack of SP co-op. B: ALSO, VERY happy to hear more gameplay types integrated in more. I'm one of those people who prefer combining gameplay types versus sticking to one for sake of simplicity, and/or learning curve. Now let's wait and see if/how it affects MP. Likely not, but excited if it does.

And I totally can't remember whatever my last thing was going to be. Guess I'll edit if I remember it.
edit: ah, maybe this was it?:
It sound like vehicle modes do not change regardless of body parts chosen. A little disappointing if true, but I don't think they said this outright. The easiest way to make body parts affect vehicle mode is to actually make the transformations to some degree, so that parts can be reflected in alt mode - like fenders, spoiler, etc. same as was done with wheels. Very similar concept to the wheels. Hardest part, as always (it's not like they don't already need to deal with this in robot mode), is making it look good regardless of parts combination chosen. Lines don't have to exactly match up, strategic gaps can be made, and parts don't always have to correlate to the same part for a chassis. For instance, say we put some sort of fun curved, spikey shoulders on our character (ala deluxe DoTM Crankcase, sort of). Say this normally correlates to the front fenders of the vehicle, but these particular shoulders jut out from under the front of the vehicle instead. In transformation, the default front fenders ensure there's no weird lack of parts there, but you also get a cool spear sort of deal coming out of the front.
What if multiple parts have similar arrangements? Create a hierarchy of which part takes precedence in the transformation. It's not any more complicated than what it sounds like is already being done. It will only take more time/effort that we can only hope they have set aside before hand. Otherwise, we can always hope for a third installment. :S
A simpler way to appease me might just be some way to alter vehicle mode somewhat, like adding a spoiler or antenna (don't ask), spikes, etc. Just something to keep the costumization going outside of robot mode.

Oh yes, and I like that it sounds like you can switch shoulders (firing arm camera is hovering over) now!

I want to be able to customize my character completely. Meaning how the body looks and how the vehicle looks based on the body parts you have. And how the character transformers too. Because of this, I can make my vehicles looks super unique and that I can place where the wheels go on my character in robot mode, what the legs transform into etc. etc. In order to make a character truely mine, it has to be how I make him/her.

wigglez323 wrote:I want to be able to customize my character completely. Meaning how the body looks and how the vehicle looks based on the body parts you have. And how the character transformers too. Because of this, I can make my vehicles looks super unique and that I can place where the wheels go on my character in robot mode, what the legs transform into etc. etc. In order to make a character truely mine, it has to be how I make him/her.

That's a bit of a far stretch. While I applaud your enthusiasm on the level of customization might be far streched for just a single disc copy. They would have to bundle a second disc with the game, and allow for a hella lot of programming.

I'm not knocking your ideas Wiggles, but it is a large task considering how much would have to be put into it.

Mind you, they managed to do it with the wwe games, but they don't have transforming. I don't think its going to be that difficult a challenge. I think it would be difficult is the custom build to transformation to vehicle and back.

It's too early for advanced thought lol

Baneblade wrote:

wigglez323 wrote:I want to be able to customize my character completely. Meaning how the body looks and how the vehicle looks based on the body parts you have. And how the character transformers too. Because of this, I can make my vehicles looks super unique and that I can place where the wheels go on my character in robot mode, what the legs transform into etc. etc. In order to make a character truely mine, it has to be how I make him/her.

That's a bit of a far stretch. While I applaud your enthusiasm on the level of customization might be far streched for just a single disc copy. They would have to bundle a second disc with the game, and allow for a hella lot of programming.

I'm not knocking your ideas Wiggles, but it is a large task considering how much would have to be put into it.

Mind you, they managed to do it with the wwe games, but they don't have transforming. I don't think its going to be that difficult a challenge. I think it would be difficult is the custom build to transformation to vehicle and back.

It's too early for advanced thought lol

you will get to customize the torso, head, upper arms, lower arms, shoulders, legs, wheels, etc. in this game. In all the times Tieger spoke of it, he described how everyone who tried out the customization spent an outrageous amount of hours just looking through the choices trying to pick out what they liked. It's that thorough and advanced a system this time around.

Sabrblade wrote:

Baneblade wrote:

wigglez323 wrote:I want to be able to customize my character completely. Meaning how the body looks and how the vehicle looks based on the body parts you have. And how the character transformers too. Because of this, I can make my vehicles looks super unique and that I can place where the wheels go on my character in robot mode, what the legs transform into etc. etc. In order to make a character truely mine, it has to be how I make him/her.

That's a bit of a far stretch. While I applaud your enthusiasm on the level of customization might be far streched for just a single disc copy. They would have to bundle a second disc with the game, and allow for a hella lot of programming.

I'm not knocking your ideas Wiggles, but it is a large task considering how much would have to be put into it.

Mind you, they managed to do it with the wwe games, but they don't have transforming. I don't think its going to be that difficult a challenge. I think it would be difficult is the custom build to transformation to vehicle and back.

It's too early for advanced thought lol

you will get to customize the torso, head, upper arms, lower arms, shoulders, legs, wheels, etc. in this game. In all the times Tieger spoke of it, he described how everyone who tried out the customization spent an outrageous amount of hours just looking through the choices trying to pick out what they liked. It's that thorough and advanced a system this time around.

I think the main thing being discussed here is the fact that the changes to the robot form doesn't affect the appearance of the vehicle form in any huge way. And I agree with Baneblade, it would be a difficult task, and would severely limit the options until a really complex system was coded that, I honestly think, wouldn't be worth the time for developers. But hey, maybe Jagex's game will have this, and it will prove me wrong here.

MINDVVIPE wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Baneblade wrote:

wigglez323 wrote:I want to be able to customize my character completely. Meaning how the body looks and how the vehicle looks based on the body parts you have. And how the character transformers too. Because of this, I can make my vehicles looks super unique and that I can place where the wheels go on my character in robot mode, what the legs transform into etc. etc. In order to make a character truely mine, it has to be how I make him/her.

That's a bit of a far stretch. While I applaud your enthusiasm on the level of customization might be far streched for just a single disc copy. They would have to bundle a second disc with the game, and allow for a hella lot of programming.

I'm not knocking your ideas Wiggles, but it is a large task considering how much would have to be put into it.

Mind you, they managed to do it with the wwe games, but they don't have transforming. I don't think its going to be that difficult a challenge. I think it would be difficult is the custom build to transformation to vehicle and back.

It's too early for advanced thought lol

you will get to customize the torso, head, upper arms, lower arms, shoulders, legs, wheels, etc. in this game. In all the times Tieger spoke of it, he described how everyone who tried out the customization spent an outrageous amount of hours just looking through the choices trying to pick out what they liked. It's that thorough and advanced a system this time around.

I think the main thing being discussed here is the fact that the changes to the robot form doesn't affect the appearance of the vehicle form in any huge way. And I agree with Baneblade, it would be a difficult task, and would severely limit the options until a really complex system was coded that, I honestly think, wouldn't be worth the time for developers. But hey, maybe Jagex's game will have this, and it will prove me wrong here.

I agree with you guys. My idea is too advanced for this date, but I'm saying maybe in the next gen system era. I'm thinking like RPG style customization where this is just pick your body parts. But even my idea is a bit advanced for RPG style. But I would like to see my idea come to life eventually to where your character is completely yours. Like say they give you the program in the game to design your character completely like we saw in the video of the lead disgner showing off how Jazz was built. If they put a program like that IN the game, then yeah. I guess I'd spend more time building characters than actually playing with them in maps. I like how HMS did gameplay in multiplayer for WFC. What if they said scratch campaign mode and made the game just all multiplayer. Or like how Baneblade said, first disk juust campaign and the second disk would be straight multiplayer. I don't really know how Sony would do that putting it on bluray disks. maybe all on one disk or even two. Anyhow, you'd think that would happen then?

wigglez323 wrote:I agree with you guys. My idea is too advanced for this date, but I'm saying maybe in the next gen system era. I'm thinking like RPG style customization where this is just pick your body parts. But even my idea is a bit advanced for RPG style. But I would like to see my idea come to life eventually to where your character is completely yours. Like say they give you the program in the game to design your character completely like we saw in the video of the lead disgner showing off how Jazz was built. If they put a program like that IN the game, then yeah. I guess I'd spend more time building characters than actually playing with them in maps.

Theres a program like that, its called Maya Yea, I too hope to see that level of customization some day.

MINDVVIPE wrote:

wigglez323 wrote:I agree with you guys. My idea is too advanced for this date, but I'm saying maybe in the next gen system era. I'm thinking like RPG style customization where this is just pick your body parts. But even my idea is a bit advanced for RPG style. But I would like to see my idea come to life eventually to where your character is completely yours. Like say they give you the program in the game to design your character completely like we saw in the video of the lead disgner showing off how Jazz was built. If they put a program like that IN the game, then yeah. I guess I'd spend more time building characters than actually playing with them in maps.

Theres a program like that, its called Maya Yea, I too hope to see that level of customization some day.

bops MindVVipe upside his batty head* heheh

the level of customisation is already there - i kinda posted at stupid o'clock in the morning and my coffee hadn't kicked in. But yes the deep customisation is there - just look at World of Warcraft and the recent WWE games. The transformation customisation is the only part that will be the clincher.

I say give it a year and we will have it in the next Transformers game - or it could be in an update for the game in a few months time.

Technology moves at such a rapid pace these days (hence why i got out of the it/webdesign game after a year - i couldn't keep up), so do not be surprised that they release a patch update that allows for the customisations to run deep into the alternate modes for our custom robots.

Speaking of complete customization, I say it'd be cool to make our own weapons also. Like choose from which barrel and other parts of a gun I don't know the names of to use to your own crosshairs.

wigglez323 wrote:Speaking of complete customization, I say it'd be cool to make our own weapons also. Like choose from which barrel and other parts of a gun I don't know the names of to use to your own crosshairs.

The problem with that is threat assessment. The trick to designing multiplayer, as I've stated before, is creating an even playing field. Part of that is being able to identify other players--team, class, and load-out. It's why everything has to remain distinct and identifiable, otherwise combat boils down to a coin-toss for whether or not you rushed an enemy much stronger than you.

Shadowman wrote:

wigglez323 wrote:Speaking of complete customization, I say it'd be cool to make our own weapons also. Like choose from which barrel and other parts of a gun I don't know the names of to use to your own crosshairs.

The problem with that is threat assessment. The trick to designing multiplayer, as I've stated before, is creating an even playing field. Part of that is being able to identify other players--team, class, and load-out. It's why everything has to remain distinct and identifiable, otherwise combat boils down to a coin-toss for whether or not you rushed an enemy much stronger than you.

Uhm, knowing the type of gun they have is barely as important visually than it is in effect. You don't tell he's a sniper by seeing the barrel, you see him standing still with occasional bullet trails... Changing gun appearance doesn't matter for threat assessment. If someone has a huge ion cannon though, its obviously a fair assesment they're packing heat.

I think gun customization is a great idea, visually or physically; Grenade laucher that can fire long distances as explosive sticky darts as ammo... works for me.

MINDVVIPE wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

wigglez323 wrote:Speaking of complete customization, I say it'd be cool to make our own weapons also. Like choose from which barrel and other parts of a gun I don't know the names of to use to your own crosshairs.

The problem with that is threat assessment. The trick to designing multiplayer, as I've stated before, is creating an even playing field. Part of that is being able to identify other players--team, class, and load-out. It's why everything has to remain distinct and identifiable, otherwise combat boils down to a coin-toss for whether or not you rushed an enemy much stronger than you.

Uhm, knowing the type of gun they have is barely as important visually than it is in effect. You don't tell he's a sniper by seeing the barrel, you see him standing still with occasional bullet trails... Changing gun appearance doesn't matter for threat assessment. If someone has a huge ion cannon though, its obviously a fair assesment they're packing heat.

I think gun customization is a great idea, visually or physically; Grenade laucher that can fire long distances as explosive sticky darts as ammo... works for me.

If you're standing there waiting to tell what weapon a guy is using by watching him use it you have already made a huge tactical error. "What gun is he using? Ah, judging by my lack of a torso, it appears he's using a fusion cannon."

If you can't tell what your opponent is using until he's shot you, that's a design flaw.

Shadowman wrote:If you're standing there waiting to tell what weapon a guy is using by watching him use it you have already made a huge tactical error. "What gun is he using? Ah, judging by my lack of a torso, it appears he's using a fusion cannon."

If you can't tell what your opponent is using until he's shot you, that's a design flaw.

Hahaha. I don't give a **** what my enemy is using; I see an enemy that I can prey on, I go for it. If he opens fire with a grenade launcher, I begin to keep my distance... if I JUST killed a bunch of enemies, and I know they're probably spawning, AND I see a stationary target at a window, I assume he's a sniper and try to kill him before he does any damage to me or my team. Seeing the weapon fire is ongoing additional data you collect to make decisions. Identifying the gun in a game like WFC is DEFINITELY not a high priority with how fast the game is (and only factors in during the start-mid combat, such as the exchange of fire, letting you know what guns your up against), and how far away targets can be seen. Not to mention, the gun he has makes no difference in regards to allegiance, so what does it matter what it looks like, its a gun. Be ready to adapt. Weapon customization shall never be hindered by the factors you mentioned.

And, if you are a useful sniper, you are standing still somewhere (atleast momentarily) and it should be your top priority to take out other snipers, lest they achieve a ton of frags thanks to your own vanity in going for easy sniper kills.

I feel like I shouldn't have to explain this...

Shadowman, you're thinking way off. Of coarse it's going to be even between the teams. I'm not saying I should be able to build a gun that blows the other team away with just one shot. I'm just saying we should build our own guns inside out on how it shoots, what it looks like, and so on. And wasting your time just trying to figure out what gun someone has is suicide. You figure it out while dodging bullets and go build a tactic on how to take him out.

wigglez323 wrote:Shadowman, you're thinking way off. Of coarse it's going to be even between the teams. I'm not saying I should be able to build a gun that blows the other team away with just one shot. I'm just saying we should build our own guns inside out on how it shoots, what it looks like, and so on.

I'm not sure why you're bringing this up, since I never said any of that.

wigglez323 wrote:And wasting your time just trying to figure out what gun someone has is suicide. You figure it out while dodging bullets and go build a tactic on how to take him out.

And rushing an enemy using a weapon you don't recognize, or waiting for them to shoot you is also suicide.

I know Valve agrees with me, at least. They specifically design everything to be easily and instantly recognizable, Team Fortress 2 in particular. I guess that's what I'm using as an example. They made everything so distinct that you can easily see an enemy's team, class, and weapon at a glance. I can predict my chances against an opponent before anyone fires a shot, then act accordingly based on my class and load out.

Shadowman wrote:And rushing an enemy using a weapon you don't recognize, or waiting for them to shoot you is also suicide.

Suicide if you can't adapt. So what do you do about vehicle mode bots? just never pursue them because you don't know what gun they're going to have when they transform? What about the fact that any player on a killstreak can out of nowhere summon the POKE, or the saved up fusion nucleon shock cannon. Adapting is the name of the game.

MINDVVIPE wrote:

Shadowman wrote:And rushing an enemy using a weapon you don't recognize, or waiting for them to shoot you is also suicide.

Suicide if you can't adapt. So what do you do about vehicle mode bots? just never pursue them because you don't know what gun they're going to have when they transform? What about the fact that any player on a killstreak can out of nowhere summon the POKE, or the saved up fusion cannon. Adapting is the name of the game.

Vehicle modes will use one of two weapons, both of which are highly predictable, so when an enemy transforms I make a plan around assuming they'll use the more powerful of the two. POKE has a distinct appearance, so I can see what it is and make a plan (IE Run like hell) before they have a chance to use it which is, by the way, my entire point this whole time, thanks for giving me ammo there.

Adapting is the name of a game. My game is perception; figuring out an enemy's skills and weapons before they've had a chance to use them. Try it some time, it'll serve you much better than rushing in blindly.

Shadowman wrote:Vehicle modes will use one of two weapons, both of which are highly predictable, so when an enemy transforms I make a plan around assuming they'll use the more powerful of the two. POKE has a distinct appearance, so I can see what it is and make a plan (IE Run like hell) before they have a chance to use it which is, by the way, my entire point this whole time, thanks for giving me ammo there.

Adapting is the name of a game. My game is perception; figuring out an enemy's skills and weapons before they've had a chance to use them. Try it some time, it'll serve you much better than rushing in blindly.

The more powerful of the 2? I have seen fusion cannon users (earlier, when I mentioned fusion cannon, I really meant the huge gun that makes you move slowly) suck, and I've taken them down with a few shots with the battle pistol, so you obviously can't sum up the danger of the gun unless you've had some time in combat with the enemy to asses their skill.
POKE is distinctive, but when the player has an assault rifle which you deem weak, you go in close. BOOM, he executes poke, it's too late, and your dead, since you're poor at adapting.
Adapting is obviously part of the entire scheme, including using all of your appropriate senses, but it is the key factor that can turn a defeat into victory... The battlefield changes constantly; assuming what you know from far away will hold true to the end will lead to death. Stop assuming (in-game, and on forums regarding the expertise of other gamers), it'll serve you better in life.

MINDVVIPE wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Vehicle modes will use one of two weapons, both of which are highly predictable, so when an enemy transforms I make a plan around assuming they'll use the more powerful of the two. POKE has a distinct appearance, so I can see what it is and make a plan (IE Run like hell) before they have a chance to use it which is, by the way, my entire point this whole time, thanks for giving me ammo there.

Adapting is the name of a game. My game is perception; figuring out an enemy's skills and weapons before they've had a chance to use them. Try it some time, it'll serve you much better than rushing in blindly.

The more powerful of the 2? I have seen fusion cannon users (earlier, when I mentioned fusion cannon, I really meant the huge gun that makes you move slowly) suck, and I've taken them down with a few shots with the battle pistol, so you obviously can't sum up the danger of the gun unless you've had some time in combat with the enemy to asses their skill.

Okay, fun fact: Vehicle modes have at most, two weapons. In fact, only jets have two weapons, every other vehicle has one. The more powerful of the two is the missiles with lock-on, which can kill a scientist in two good shots, and requires no aiming ability at all. Even firing without lock-on, it still comes with splash damage. As opposed to the spray-and-pray machine guns.

That said, assumptions are the best way to form a strategy. Yes, that Nucleon Shock Cannon user may have sucked, but what if he didn't? You don't plan around the idea that your opponent might suck, or that you have to get killed a few times to realize he doesn't. You go in thinking your opponent is God Himself and you need to give it your all and then some to win.

MINDVVIPE wrote:POKE is distinctive, but when the player has an assault rifle which you deem weak, you go in close. BOOM, he executes poke, it's too late, and your dead, since you're poor at adapting.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions here. Like, you're assuming I deemed the assault rifle weak. I didn't. I've never cared for it, though. I prefer the EMP shotgun, which can two-shot most opponents, or the Ion Cannon which is basically a slightly larger Assault Rifle.

Second, you're assuming I'm poor at adapting, which is weird because I don't recall ever playing alongside you. At anything. Ever.

Finally, POKE takes a moment to activate, and it's announced quite loudly. So I'd launch a desperation move (IE, empty my weapon into him, backpedaling if possible) in a hope to take him down before he could take me down. Transforming to escape is useless at that point; it's takes too long and POKE allows the enemy to move faster, so there would be no point.

MINDVVIPE wrote:Adapting is obviously part of the entire scheme, including using all of your appropriate senses, but it is the key factor that can turn a defeat into victory... The battlefield changes constantly; assuming what you know from far away will hold true to the end will lead to death.

Thank you for telling me what I already know. But you skipped a part, the other part of the entire scheme: Knowing what you're getting into a fight with. And unless you have the reflexes of Spider-Man, trying to adapt while a bullet is coming at you is damn near impossible.

MINDVVIPE wrote:Stop assuming (in-game, and on forums regarding the expertise of other gamers), it'll serve you better in life.

The irony of it all is that your post is littered with assumptions about me. Which I find hilarious.

Back on topic: I really don't like the idea of customizable weapons. Unless it's something minor, like attachments or some such thing. Keep the basic appearance in tact, but with added or slightly altered bits, but the weapons are still clearly identifiable. Because a guy comes at you with a heal ray, you drop your guard, thinking it's just a heal ray and you can--oh, wait, it's just a disguised Fusion Cannon and he wrecks you with it.

So much misunderstanding here. I wasn't saying you don't adapt, I was speaking generally. I also didn't assume anything about you, I was stating the fact that no one really knows anything about their enemy until they engage and see how they move and their accuracy. OBVIOUSLY you give it your all each time. I didn't mean YOU assumed the assault rifle is weak, I was using examples.You also just told me you might drop your guard if you saw someone with a heal ray... so much for assuming each enemy is god. I don't make any assumptions about the enemy, coz even with a health ray, add a shockwave ability, add a drain ability, and suddenly the health ray is enough. You don't need to die a few times, but you atleast need to begin exchanging fire and observing how your enemy reacts to your own behaviour (you can play weakly and defensively only to let their confidence rise, and then take advantage of that). You plan strategies on what you know for sure (tank class, already damaged, whatever ability is being used), the rest you asses as you go.

YAYYYYY!!!! I'VE WAITED A LONG TIME FOR THIS!!! I'M GETTING THAT GAME THE DAY IT COMES TO STORES!!! YAHOO!!! and from what I've heard/read in the internet, it's supposed to be REALLY good!!!

Bumblebee imitation ROTF: I'm so excited! *snaps fingers along*

Any word on multiplayer details yet?

wigglez323 wrote:Any word on multiplayer details yet?

I'm sure Game Informer covered something during their month-long coverage.

So judging from the poster art on page one pre G1 Transformers have already seen dinosaurs centuries before they ever came to earth?
Its one thing to make up a separate universe but if your going to masquarade as being part of G1 how about not crapping all over the original plot points and storylines.

High Moon are clearly not genuine original fans. Anyone can buy a couple of "off the shelf" Transformers to decorate their studio to fool fanboys into thinking they are legit.

Tell you what, just take what was written on the tech specs in the 80"S and use that as your universe. Back then things actually had to make sense before they stole off with your money.

The hard work was all done back then before everything turned "throw away society", so why can't we tapp into that to enrich the current experience?

PS. High Moon stop re writing characters backstories that already exist.

I'm not touching this game if it has the same lack of "host migration" support.
Who am I kidding? You couldn't force me to buy another High Moon game.

I know its easy for everyone to get excited about a new game, we all want each new game to be the best that it can be but there is little use everyone blindly singing their praises when a few months down the track the same people have abandoned the game because of lack of depth.

Still plenty of people on ROTF, I think some have realised that TF2 was the peak in the franchise's history both the movies and games and things will never be as excessive or excellent again.

Sparkstalker wrote:So judging from the poster art on page one pre G1 Transformers have already seen dinosaurs centuries before they ever came to earth?

1. They aren't pre-G1 Transformers. You'd think the Dinobots would have made that clear by now. Hell, I thought Air Raid and Silverbolt would have made it clear.

2. In G1 continuity, the Autobots had been on Earth for far more than a few centuries. The Ark is shown sitting in it's volcano while humans were still in ape-form.

3. They also saw trucks and jets and tanks before coming to Earth. And Spiders, and Bumblebees, and Dinosaurs, if Trypticon is anything to go by.

Sparkstalker wrote:Its one thing to make up a separate universe but if your going to masquarade as being part of G1 how about not crapping all over the original plot points and storylines.

It's not G1, we figured this one pretty quickly. The Dinobots are basically the final piece of evidence. Even if they said it was in G1, they haven't said anything since.

Also, G1 had a tendency to crap all over the original plot points and storylines. Compare Cartoon G1 to comics G1. Any comics G1, really, there's tons to choose from.

Sparkstalker wrote:Tell you what, just take what was written on the tech specs in the 80"S and use that as your universe. Back then things actually had to make sense before they stole off with your money.

Why should they do that when no one else did? Tech Spec Bios were abridged versions of bios written by Marvel and Budiansky, and most of them were quickly ignored. (Shockwave is a notable example, his bio pegs him as a logic-fueled Starscream but in the cartoon he's anything but)

Sparkstalker wrote:The hard work was all done back then before everything turned "throw away society", so why can't we tapp into that to enrich the current experience?

I actually don't know what this means.

Sparkstalker wrote:PS. High Moon stop re writing characters backstories that already exist.

Yeah, don't be like every other writer in the history of Transformers and create your own continuity and characterization, High Moon, just rehash the stuff we've seen a million times before!

Sparkstalker wrote:I know its easy for everyone to get excited about a new game, we all want each new game to be the best that it can be but there is little use everyone blindly singing their praises when a few months down the track the same people have abandoned the game because of lack of depth.

No idea what this has to do with anything. WfC ended up being abandoned, sure, but unless you have a crystal ball or a time machine you can't really be certain the same will happen to FoC.

Sparkstalker wrote:Still plenty of people on ROTF, I think some have realised that TF2 was the peak in the franchise's history both the movies and games and things will never be as excessive or excellent again.

Ah, you should avoid calling it TF2. There's already a much more successful game with that name.

pssh rotf the game sucks giant mahonays. I stil play WFC on PC, I have far from abadoned it, and I am still able to find new opponents online all the time, even if it takes just a little more time on a weekday night.

MINDVVIPE wrote:pssh rotf the game sucks giant mahonays. I stil play WFC on PC, I have far from abadoned it, and I am still able to find new opponents online all the time, even if it takes just a little more time on a weekday night.

I played WFC multiplayer yesterday. I forgot how much I hated it. ROTF FTW!

I've just heard alot of propaganda coming out of High Moon about it being "cannon" and everyone seems to be lapping it up.
And yes they did claim it was supposed to be pre G1 they have just hammed it up by thinking they can rewrite everything better.

Let me explain the part you say you don't understand.

The human race used to represent quality over quantity, not anymore. Even the cartoon had a more logical plot then the movies. Things are made ultra cheap these days. Video games have become an exercise in putting out any old crap year after year and people will buy it thinking it will be all that the last game wasn't, but they never are.

I don't need to have a crystal ball to work out that the same thing is going to happen being that its by the same company, will have the same shallow gameplay mechanics, will be modeled after the generic COD load screens and won't support host migration like the last two games they made.

Seriously, you guys even play ROTF? It's FAR, FAR bigger then DOTM, both the single and the multiplayer. But you guys are quite happy paying $14 for one multiplayer DOTM sideswipe? Which still doesn't make it even close to a full game.
Thats a pretty good way to gauge their potential for success. Two movie games, one made by Luxoflux one made by High Moon. Enough said.

Sorry but when I think TF I think Transformers. This is a Transformer website right?

I was under the assumption that most TF fans just want an actual G1 game. Not a rehash, not reinvented, god only knows they do that every other year already. Their was the Japan only one back in the day but we need something easily accessable and usable in todays day and age. When do loyal fans get the basic "bread and butter?"
Never because some ass gets hold of the rights and says "I'm going to change it to suit me."

1. They aren't pre-G1 Transformers. You'd think the Dinobots would have made that clear by now. Hell, I thought Air Raid and Silverbolt would have made it clear.

2. In G1 continuity, the Autobots had been on Earth for far more than a few centuries. The Ark is shown sitting in it's volcano while humans were still in ape-form.

3. They also saw trucks and jets and tanks before coming to Earth. And Spiders, and Bumblebees, and Dinosaurs, if Trypticon is anything to go by.

I don't get what your driving at here? Are you referring to WFC or the G1 cartoon?

I never saw any trucks on the first episode on Cybertron? It's not unlikely that they also discovered the wheel anyhow. Their robot representation looked the same so children would not be confused by the entire cast changing appearance in the first episode. But their alternate forms were hover vehicles.

Trypticon? You must be referring to WFC? Well even though he was created during the cartoon on earth I can accept him because he looks like no dinosaur I know. I just consider him a monster. You can have monsters in pre G1 continuinity but not dinosaurs.

Yep Air Raid and Silverbolt I see as a giant lack of effort and imagination on the part of those who chose them to be in the game being that its in plot conflict AGAIN, plus they re wrote their bios. Remember when we found out they were going to be in the game they were forcing "cannon" propaganda down our throats. I guess they tripped themselves up on that one.

Why should they do that when no one else did? Tech Spec Bios were abridged versions of bios written by Marvel and Budiansky, and most of them were quickly ignored. (Shockwave is a notable example, his bio pegs him as a logic-fueled Starscream but in the cartoon he's anything but)

Because they are a vast improvement on the lack of imagination and detail we get these days. Turn arounnd is to quick these days to get anything decent so why not use the vast library of data the TF universe has already amassed?
You don't take the mistakes and obvious omissions that leaves the other 99% that works.

Sparkstalker wrote:Words

I don't think the human race was really ever about either quality or quantity. It was always about turning a dime, and that can be done both ways depending on your strategy. As for the game not being exactly like G1, its still a lot better than the bayverse. Dotm might not be as good as WFC, but they are both much less about exactly what you are ranting about, which is quantity over quality. They're movie tie-ins. The sign of this is so clear just by playing it. But I don't care to argue about it, since we can probably go on for forever when it really all just boils down to opinion. One less player on FoC; big whoop. All your posts are about how much ROTF is better than the other games... is that all you care about?

Sparkstalker wrote:I've just heard alot of propaganda coming out of High Moon about it being "cannon" and everyone seems to be lapping it up.
And yes they did claim it was supposed to be pre G1 they have just hammed it up by thinking they can rewrite everything better.

And when exactly was the last time they said it was pre-G1? Oh, right, just before Hasbro said otherwise, and then not a word about it since the establishment of the Aligned Continuity.

Sparkstalker wrote:Even the cartoon had a more logical plot then the movies.

Which cartoon? Surely you aren't referring to G1? Because G1 didn't have plot. Beast Wars, sure. But not G1.

Sparkstalker wrote:I don't need to have a crystal ball to work out that the same thing is going to happen being that its by the same company, will have the same shallow gameplay mechanics, will be modeled after the generic COD load screens and won't support host migration like the last two games they made.

You don't play a lot of video games, do you? Same developer does not equal same game. Compare Knights of the Old Republic, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, and Dragon Age, and The Old Republic. Five extremely different games all from the same developer.

Hell, compare Mass Effect to Mass Effect 2. Similar in many regards but the gameplay is strikingly different. Mass Effect 3 is reported to change the gameplay even more.

Sparkstalker wrote:Seriously, you guys even play ROTF?

No, as a rule I try to avoid tie-in games.

Sparkstalker wrote:Sorry but when I think TF I think Transformers. This is a Transformer website right?

Yeah, that's why we're talking about Transformers right now. But when you say "TF2" most gamers tend to think "Team Fortress 2."

Sparkstalker wrote:I was under the assumption that most TF fans just want an actual G1 game.

You assumed wrong.

Sparkstalker wrote:Never because some ass gets hold of the rights and says "I'm going to change it to suit me."

Uh, yeah. That's how the franchise evolves. Innovation requires change.

Sparkstalker wrote:

1. They aren't pre-G1 Transformers. You'd think the Dinobots would have made that clear by now. Hell, I thought Air Raid and Silverbolt would have made it clear.

2. In G1 continuity, the Autobots had been on Earth for far more than a few centuries. The Ark is shown sitting in it's volcano while humans were still in ape-form.

3. They also saw trucks and jets and tanks before coming to Earth. And Spiders, and Bumblebees, and Dinosaurs, if Trypticon is anything to go by.

I don't get what your driving at here? Are you referring to WFC or the G1 cartoon?

I'm comparing Aligned (WfC, Exiles, Exodus, FoC, and TF:Prime) to G1.

Sparkstalker wrote:Trypticon? You must be referring to WFC? Well even though he was created during the cartoon on earth I can accept him because he looks like no dinosaur I know. I just consider him a monster. You can have monsters in pre G1 continuinity but not dinosaurs.

Oh he is SO a dinosaur. Also, in the Aligned Continuity (The continuity WfC is officially part of) he was a result of a series of experiments from Shockwave, turning the space station from the first mission into a sentient Transformer.

Sparkstalker wrote:

Why should they do that when no one else did? Tech Spec Bios were abridged versions of bios written by Marvel and Budiansky, and most of them were quickly ignored. (Shockwave is a notable example, his bio pegs him as a logic-fueled Starscream but in the cartoon he's anything but)

Because they are a vast improvement on the lack of imagination and detail we get these days. Turn arounnd is to quick these days to get anything decent so why not use the vast library of data the TF universe has already amassed?
You don't take the mistakes and obvious omissions that leaves the other 99% that works.

So what you're is saying it's unimaginative that they created new bios and back stories--that they made something new--instead of reusing older works?

It's like you're not even trying.

MINDVVIPE wrote:All your posts are about how much ROTF is better than the other games... is that all you care about?

His posts are also about how they-GASP--changed something from G1! Also that he still thinks WfC is part of G1 canon and not Aligned, which we were told about before WfC came out.