Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse?

Thursday, December 8th, 2022 10:27am CST

Categories: Movie Related News, Editorials
Posted by: william-james88 Views: 32,763

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I will first and foremost reiterate that for the live action Transformers films, it's best to enjoy them as singular entities rather than try to map out any kind of continuity, even though the films do often attempt connecting visual or story elements. The next film, Rise of the Beasts, will be no different, hence my earlier article about it not making a difference if it's a reboot or not.

People have since written in and commented, offering good points. The best one being that while the tropes of the live action Transformers films may be inevitable (and even enjoyed by many fans), at least a reboot of the continuity would mean that the films don't lead to the unconcluded story set up in The Last Knight. That is an excellent point, and for the reasons I will point out below, that may be what this franchise plans on doing with this film. That does mean, however, that while the continuity changes, the live action films would still be in the same universe, set up by Michael Bay and Steven Spielberg (aptly called Bayverse by many). And there in lies the question, would fans be ok with preserving the Bayverse but branching off into an alternate storyline/continuity within?

I bring this up because there were rumours of a test screening for the Rise of the Beasts, which included elements of time travel, connecting the Rise of the Beasts movie directly with the earlier Bay era movies and changing the past so that the storylines don't end up in the same direction as the previous Bay films, creating a new timeline. There was never solid evidence of these screenings, so not much attention was given to them. Those story elements are starting to resurface with the mention of the Transwarp Key (or Keys), which we know will factor into this movie, and that was mentioned in the accounts of the test screenings. It may have been a lucky guess but, regardless, the "Transwarp" element does come from Beast Wars canon and it was the Transwarp Drive which let the Maximals travel through time originally. All to say, time travel can factor into this movie.

Other outlets have written similar articles comparing this possible plot point to the X-Men franchise where time travel was also used to create a diverging timeline within the same universe, creating new potential storylines (like the Apocalypse and Dark Pheonix film). As I read all this and put it together, I wonder if the fans who were asking for a reboot would be satisfied by this. While it would help the storytellers for future films, it still provides zero indication of fans getting what they want, which is a film focused on the robots with very few (to no) humans. It just means that the Unicron plot point from Transformers The Last Knight is abandoned, which would anger other fans. So ultimately, it looks like this doesn't benefit any fan. Those who want the Bayverse to die don't get that, and those who want to see a satisfying conclusion to the story the live action films were telling don't get that either.

But maybe this middle ground of a divergent storyline would satisfy some fans, hence the question this article asks: would fans be happy with an alternate timeline within the Bayverse?

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Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2150994)
Posted by First-Aid on December 8th, 2022 @ 10:37am CST

-Kanrabat- wrote:Well, I would be happy with an alternate time-line in the Bayverse, but only if at some point, the time-lines converge Spiderman No Way Home style.

You mean lots of Optimi? I'm game for that.

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2150996)
Posted by Sabrblade on December 8th, 2022 @ 11:08am CST

First-Aid wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:Well, I would be happy with an alternate time-line in the Bayverse, but only if at some point, the time-lines converge Spiderman No Way Home style.

You mean lots of Optimi? I'm game for that.

Knowing This brand, it would be lots of Bumblebees.

And all of them would still be unable to speak.

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2150997)
Posted by noctorro on December 8th, 2022 @ 11:23am CST

william-james88 wrote:I just call him James Bond

Hahaha exactly!
Now that I think of it, The Fast and Furious Family are all Gary Stues

Well, you do know what you are watching.

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2150998)
Posted by noctorro on December 8th, 2022 @ 11:32am CST

Cheesinator wrote:
muddyjoe wrote:"Liberal ideas"?... Like censoring free speech when it doesn't agree with your world view?

Do you believe that expressing disgust and/or anger at the mention of a cast being predominantly black/hispanic is generally protected under free speech?

noctorro wrote:From the teaser, lots and lots of bots! And it looks like it's not fanbaiting.

That's my hope too, but at this point I'm measuring expectations. I imagine it's difficult to provide a lot of bot action with cool kills while also making them feel like actual characters; IMO Bumblebee did this best (followed closely by TF1) due to having a small cast, while movies like RotF and DotM showed that if you have a huge cast, most of the bots end up just being kinda forgettable and seem more like extras.

On the first note, disgust and anger is sour behaviour. Even if the emotion is justified given the current Hollywood climate. You can't say with a straight face that there's nothing going on in a certain political leaning direction. Howver voicing concerns in a somewhat decent manner should not be silenced in my personal opinion.

Second part: I also think Bumblebee did it best. Keep it small and build out if the audience says it's a good movie with their wallet. Not shill media.
My gods, I think Ratchet had litteraly one line of dialogue in Dark of the Moon. And that's my second favorite Transformers movie.

If the characters don't have any depth/personality/story then them fighting etc. does very little for me in the enjoyment factor. + it's just objectivly bad.

I think I'm just a big child, I cannot contain my enthusaism in case of a big dissapointment to be honest.
It looks like Transformers filled and they talk a lot + there seems to be a lot of action. The only thing they can ruin it for me is with onesided high horse politics.
Or toilet humor, but it looks like the humor is subltle seeing that final shot of Arcee.
If Bay was in charge Arcee would be twerking, oh wait that's actually Marvel isn't it.

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2150999)
Posted by -Kanrabat- on December 8th, 2022 @ 11:49am CST

First-Aid wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:Well, I would be happy with an alternate time-line in the Bayverse, but only if at some point, the time-lines converge Spiderman No Way Home style.

You mean lots of Optimi? I'm game for that.

If Bee/ROTB Optimus is more in line with G1 than "Optimus the Barbarian" from the first Bay movies, I'd love to see both of them meet and react to each other.

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2151000)
Posted by blackeyedprime on December 8th, 2022 @ 12:11pm CST

Anything that brings an end to baynus is good to me, sadly this won't be it. Bumblebee could have been a good move forward even with its flaws. This is seemingly ten steps backwards and probably not even a Linkin Park song to save it.

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2151002)
Posted by bumblebeeprime_18 on December 8th, 2022 @ 12:40pm CST

@william-james88 there has never really confirmation that the film is a full continuity reboot

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2151004)
Posted by WiseMan on December 8th, 2022 @ 1:10pm CST

If they used the transwarp macguffin for time travel, maybe using it to stop Unicron, that would be a nice way to tie everything together.

And then leave it completely behind and start fresh with someone who understands the word "continuity".

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2151005)
Posted by william-james88 on December 8th, 2022 @ 1:12pm CST

bumblebeeprime_18 wrote:@william-james88 there has never really confirmation that the film is a full continuity reboot

You're right and I've said as such many times, like in my previous article. They've always been very coy about it with Travis Knight flat out saying those words meant nothing to him in regards to his film. This is all just conjecture, to stimulate discussion based on new info we've received. Basically, lots of "what if"s.

Also, even if this film branches out, it wouldn't be a full reboot. It would instead confirm that Bumblebee was in continuity with the rest of the Bayverse films and that events branch off afterwards, fully integrating all films into one universe. Which I think is the opposite fans wanted.

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2151008)
Posted by Sabrblade on December 8th, 2022 @ 2:19pm CST

My gut feeling that Paramount is never gonna fully address the notion of Bumblebee and Rise of the Beasts ever being a separate timeline because they don't want to fully discard the first five movies after how much money the first four made for them, and will continue to remain completely agnostic on the matter so that ROTB could still, even if just theoretically, take place chronologically before the 2007 movie in the same timeline. Basically Hasbro's "squint test" logic they had regarding the Aligned fiction.

Like, it feels likely that they aren't ever going to make a movie that unambiguously says something like "We are willfully ignoring and deliberately irrevocably contradicting the 2007 movie! Here's Megatron in a G1 body dancing on top of Hoover Dam at a point when he should instead be on ice inside of it! He just flew down to Earth from outer space! And he's only just now meeting Optimus for the first time ever! And he even brought his wife and kids with him!"

Money talks big words to big corporate executives, even if some of that money came from something as half-baked as ROTF.

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2151009)
Posted by bluecatcinema on December 8th, 2022 @ 2:22pm CST

Considering how badly things turned out by the later movies, I wouldn't mind the idea of these movies being part of a different timeline.

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2151012)
Posted by RiddlerJ on December 8th, 2022 @ 2:46pm CST

On one hand, if it would provide some closure to the unresolved threads from TLK (basically by erasing them) then I guess it's a good thing.

However, I absolutely loathe the trend film series have with alternate timelines, either through some time changing shenanigans or just straight up rebooting like say the Halloween movies have done. All it does is convince me that filmmakers and studios are even less concerned with the quality of their work than ever since anytime time film underperforms or if they simply no longer want to be bothered with it, they flat out trashcan the thing. I'm less excited to see movies than ever since they feel so disposable. The people in charge of them don't care, why should I?

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2151015)
Posted by Rysquad on December 8th, 2022 @ 3:04pm CST

william-james88 wrote:I will first and foremost reiterate that for the live action Transformers films, it's best to enjoy them as singular entities rather than try to map out any kind of continuity, even though the films do often attempt connecting visual or story elements. The next film, Rise of the Beasts, will be no different, hence my earlier article about it not making a difference if it's a reboot or not.

People have since written in and commented, offering good points. The best one being that while the tropes of the live action Transformers films may be inevitable (and even enjoyed by many fans), at least a reboot of the continuity would mean that the films don't lead to the unconcluded story set up in The Last Knight. That is an excellent point, and for the reasons I will point out below, that may be what this franchise plans on doing with this film. That does mean, however, that while the continuity changes, the live action films would still be in the same universe, set up by Michael Bay and Steven Spielberg (aptly called Bayverse by many). And there in lies the question, would fans be ok with preserving the Bayverse but branching off into an alternate storyline/continuity within?

I bring this up because there were rumours of a test screening for the Rise of the Beasts, which included elements of time travel, connecting the Rise of the Beasts movie directly with the earlier Bay era movies and changing the past so that the storylines don't end up in the same direction as the previous Bay films, creating a new timeline. There was never solid evidence of these screenings, so not much attention was given to them. Those story elements are starting to resurface with the mention of the Transwarp Key (or Keys), which we know will factor into this movie, and that was mentioned in the accounts of the test screenings. It may have been a lucky guess but, regardless, the "Transwarp" element does come from Beast Wars canon and it was the Transwarp Drive which let the Maximals travel through time originally. All to say, time travel can factor into this movie.

Other outlets have written similar articles comparing this possible plot point to the X-Men franchise where time travel was also used to create a diverging timeline within the same universe, creating new potential storylines (like the Apocalypse and Dark Pheonix film). As I read all this and put it together, I wonder if the fans who were asking for a reboot would be satisfied by this. While it would help the storytellers for future films, it still provides zero indication of fans getting what they want, which is a film focused on the robots with very few (to no) humans. It just means that the Unicron plot point from Transformers The Last Knight is abandoned, which would anger other fans. So ultimately, it looks like this doesn't benefit any fan. Those who want the Bayverse to die don't get that, and those who want to see a satisfying conclusion to the story the live action films were telling don't get that either.

But maybe this middle ground of a divergent storyline would satisfy some fans, hence the question this article asks: would fans be happy with an alternate timeline within the Bayverse?

In my head, 2018's Bumblebee already re-booted the live-action film franchise.

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2151019)
Posted by 84everfan on December 8th, 2022 @ 3:39pm CST

How bout some consistent world building and continuity, with a consistent art style that's it's own thing and not the Frankenstein's monster it has been for the last 5 years? That would be pretty neat I think, fellas.

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2151021)
Posted by babylon queen on December 8th, 2022 @ 3:42pm CST

What were the real reasons for the movie release delays?

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2151023)
Posted by -Kanrabat- on December 8th, 2022 @ 3:53pm CST

babylon queen wrote:What were the real reasons for the movie release delays?

15 days to slow down the spread...

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2151026)
Posted by DeathReviews on December 8th, 2022 @ 4:14pm CST

As a generality, I think multi-verses and diverging timelines are a sign of lazy writing. If Hollywood wants ROTB, or any other Transformers movie, to 'start over' and move away from previous movies? Then by all means, have at it. If they want to be original, they should be clever and prove it by not leaning on previous films as a crutch.

How many different Batman movies have we had, for example? They didn't try to carry on in Nolan's "Batman Returns" by linking it as a separate timeline to the Burton-verse "Batman & Robin" (thank goodness).

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2151027)
Posted by First-Aid on December 8th, 2022 @ 4:19pm CST

-Kanrabat- wrote:
babylon queen wrote:What were the real reasons for the movie release delays?

15 days to slow down the spread...

God, we're paying for that now...

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2151030)
Posted by -Kanrabat- on December 8th, 2022 @ 4:41pm CST

First-Aid wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:
babylon queen wrote:What were the real reasons for the movie release delays?

15 days to slow down the spread...

God, we're paying for that now...

I don't want to derail the thread further but they tested some James Bond's villain "world conquest" schemes and it worked beautifully.
I fear for our future.

Meanwhile, let's just distract ourselves with bread and games like this upcoming movie until The Empire falls!

Re: Would Fans Like Divergent Timelines Within the Bayverse? (2151031)
Posted by First-Aid on December 8th, 2022 @ 5:15pm CST

-Kanrabat- wrote:
First-Aid wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:
babylon queen wrote:What were the real reasons for the movie release delays?

15 days to slow down the spread...

God, we're paying for that now...

I don't want to derail the thread further but they tested some James Bond's villain "world conquest" schemes and it worked beautifully.
I fear for our future.

Meanwhile, let's just distract ourselves with bread and games like this upcoming movie until The Empire falls!