Twincast / Podcast Episode #226 "Fire in the Sky"

Forgive me for being that guy, but I've got to correct some stuff: Apeface is characterized as an intimidating jerk rather than a disgusting slob, I think you were mixing him up with his mate Snapdragon, and Red Alert also has a new head rather than just being a repaint.

Also just because I'm "too young" to have been around in G1 doesn't mean I don't know who Thunderwing is, how dare.

Good show though guys.

Nemesis Primal wrote:Forgive me for being that guy, but I've got to correct some stuff: Apeface is characterized as an intimidating jerk rather than a disgusting slob, I think you were mixing him up with his mate Snapdragon

Fair enough on the other points, but I want half-credit for this one! He doesn't drool so that was wrong, but he does spit. Also "smells like a grease-encrusted turboworm". Horri-Bull, Blot and Snapdragon are others I think of similarly, little less so with Horri-Bull due to Masterforce.

From Marvel's Transformers Universe


His VSD listing if that pic doesn't work/for Tech Spec: https://www.seibertron.com/vsd/character/apeface/227/

I'm going to be honest, I really like the Battle Damage, I think it looks especially good on Prime and Springer and I'll give you that on some figures, see Starscream it looks overdone.

Either way, your characterization of it is offensive and snobbish.
Also, how ludicrous to go through all the trouble to remove the Battle Damage on Prime when the 35th Anniversary version was leaked and is obviously going to be Battle Damage free.

Further, why the hell not have scrapes and scratches on undying robot warriors that war for thousands of years.

- a critic

ScottyP wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:Forgive me for being that guy, but I've got to correct some stuff: Apeface is characterized as an intimidating jerk rather than a disgusting slob, I think you were mixing him up with his mate Snapdragon

Fair enough on the other points, but I want half-credit for this one! He doesn't drool so that was wrong, but he does spit. Also "smells like a grease-encrusted turboworm". Horri-Bull, Blot and Snapdragon are others I think of similarly, little less so with Horri-Bull due to Masterforce.

...well, I've been had. My only real experience with the character is his TFWiki page, his very brief appearance in IDW as a mob member, and that one time I watched Rebirth, so I've never been an Apeface expert and should have kept that bit to myself. Oh well, that's an interesting tidbit.

Do you guys like the Springer mold enough that you would like to see it reused? I'd still like to see a Guidi-inspired Deadlock repaint/retool like the Barricade we're getting, but I've heard mutterings on other sites that the transformation is annoying/overly-involved.

First off, great show guys! I really enjoyed the content of this one.

I pointed it out to Scotty earlier on Twitter, but mention it here too: SS Grimlock uses a fake dino head that transforms into part of his tail.

Man, I do not want Skyfire and have no real attachment to that robot mode, and the T30 one looks so much better, but I'm reaching that Counterpunch with MP-10 moment where I think I have an opinion but i think it is wrong. maybe around Christmas we'll have to see his availability.

Same with Springer, though I am really hoping we get a Guidi Drift out of it.

I am all in for Thunderwing!

I really like the battle damage, i love that aesthetic.

I guess Ari forgot to message me about going to TFcon

Nice hauls too!

SkyFire Prime wrote:I'm going to be honest, I really like the Battle Damage, I think it looks especially good on Prime and Springer and I'll give you that on some figures, see Starscream it looks overdone.

Either way, your characterization of it is offensive and snobbish.
Also, how ludicrous to go through all the trouble to remove the Battle Damage on Prime when the 35th Anniversary version was leaked and is obviously going to be Battle Damage free.

Further, why the hell not have scrapes and scratches on undying robot warriors that war for thousands of years.

- a critic

Snobbish? Really?

Why isn't it on every exposed edge of the alt mode?

Are we actually assuming that these beings, who are made of metal...paint themselves? That the colors of their body are only a thin layer deep? Maybe. I'm not saying that's entirely absurd. Like, the coloration could be their clothing for example.

But the reason why I consider it to be a bad effort is because it's a total half measure. Either the damage should be pervasive or very minimal. The hit or miss nature of these paint apps sets the figures apart from previous releases and in the worst examples, looks amateurish.

Interestingly enough, some of the toys from the Unicron trilogy have scoring marks around areas that are appropriate...treads, thrusters, intricate mechanical parts, the nosecone of a shuttle. All well done and it doesn't stand out compared to the overall presentation of the toy.

I think this type of play pattern would have been better served with translucent sticker sheets allowing you to choose the why in which the damage was applied.

SkyFire Prime wrote:Also, how ludicrous to go through all the trouble to remove the Battle Damage on Prime when the 35th Anniversary version was leaked and is obviously going to be Battle Damage free.

I was attempting it because I liked the set Reprolabels did and thought it would help that look.

Counterpunch already replied to the rest, I agree with him.

Nemesis Primal wrote:Do you guys like the Springer mold enough that you would like to see it reused? I'd still like to see a Guidi-inspired Deadlock repaint/retool like the Barricade we're getting, but I've heard mutterings on other sites that the transformation is annoying/overly-involved.

I was really into his transformation, but the fires of third party hell have made complex transformations not even singe as long as they're logical and a little intuitive, as Springer is. This is another way of saying that I really liked it but am probably out of touch with what constitutes "overly-involved" for the main line

All for more uses as long as they fit the character. I wouldn't have minded seeing one with no car mode used for Spinister, but this is me being greedy and wanting big 'ol Alex Milne Spinister that towers over the other not-Grimlock Scavengers.

Counterpunch wrote:

SkyFire Prime wrote:I'm going to be honest, I really like the Battle Damage, I think it looks especially good on Prime and Springer and I'll give you that on some figures, see Starscream it looks overdone.

Either way, your characterization of it is offensive and snobbish.
Also, how ludicrous to go through all the trouble to remove the Battle Damage on Prime when the 35th Anniversary version was leaked and is obviously going to be Battle Damage free.

Further, why the hell not have scrapes and scratches on undying robot warriors that war for thousands of years.

- a critic

Snobbish? Really?

Why isn't it on every exposed edge of the alt mode?

Are we actually assuming that these beings, who are made of metal...paint themselves? That the colors of their body are only a thin layer deep? Maybe. I'm not saying that's entirely absurd. Like, the coloration could be their clothing for example.

But the reason why I consider it to be a bad effort is because it's a total half measure. Either the damage should be pervasive or very minimal. The hit or miss nature of these paint apps sets the figures apart from previous releases and in the worst examples, looks amateurish.

Interestingly enough, some of the toys from the Unicron trilogy have scoring marks around areas that are appropriate...treads, thrusters, intricate mechanical parts, the nosecone of a shuttle. All well done and it doesn't stand out compared to the overall presentation of the toy.

I think this type of play pattern would have been better served with translucent sticker sheets allowing you to choose the why in which the damage was applied.

I think translucent stickers would be useless, the effect nullified by peeling, air pockets etc. Let's not give Hasbro any hope that we would be happy with any form of sticker, I'm sure on that we could agree.


I do feel, however, that you guys haven't even given this new style a chance. The scrape effects on Prime and Springer were made with obvious care and not random. Soundwave has an amazing shatter effect on his window.

Why isn't it on every edge? We'll, my car has a few scrapes and scratches but every edge is not covered in damage. Looking at Springer they scraped up the leading edge of the car mode....maybe because he's been ramming his enemies, his top hatch scraped.... maybe he was thrown off a cliff. The whole figure need not be scuffed.

I've seen damage effects before that made me frustrated. Animated deluxe Prime and Megatron come to mind. Straight up huge opaque black scorch marks or MP1 with similar opaque black scorch marks

But Siege has consistent finely granular lithographed reflective scrape and damage marks.
I appreciate the effort, and it makes the toys look more mature, adds character.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:I guess Ari forgot to message me about going to TFcon

Ha! I'm self-actualizing. The more I say I'm going the more likely it becomes... but in truth it's still up in the air

SkyFire Prime wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

SkyFire Prime wrote:I like the Battle Damage, but admit it's hit or miss!

I disagree with your assessment sir, and raise you a translucent sticker sheet!

Translucent stickers? Poppycock! What is this, the Thrilling 30!?

SkyFire Prime wrote:I do feel, however, that you guys haven't even given this new style a chance. The scrape effects on Prime and Springer were made with obvious care and not random. Soundwave has an amazing shatter effect on his window.

My wave 1 Optimus not bought for a sticker set has a money shot of paint on his face. That misses your point, just providing some levity, I hope.

Since going to tampos sure, nothing like that has happened. I take some issue with the "not giving it a chance" idea, because you're taking my/our opinion and reducing it in a way that makes it sound thoughtless and predetermined on my/our part. On some figures the effects are fine for what they are, Soundwave being a good example. Shockwave's pretty ok too. But line-wide it's inconsistent, Prowl barely has anything on him at all and my opinion on Starscream is that it's a mess - totally cool if you're into it and don't think it's messy though! On Springer it's decent enough on the green but I find it messy on the yellow. Personally I'd rather have clean decos because of the wildly varying results in execution the "damage" tampos yields, but again that's just me.

This particular episode probably didn't get this point across well because I kept it short on purpose - there are several previous episodes where I've said my peace in detail (I think, they run together sometimes) and I didn't want folks that have heard those points before have to sit through it all again. I can see how in the vacuum of this one episode it could sound pointed and douche-y when holding the opposite opinion. Thanks for listening in and providing the feedback

ScottyP wrote:

SkyFire Prime wrote:I do feel, however, that you guys haven't even given this new style a chance. The scrape effects on Prime and Springer were made with obvious care and not random. Soundwave has an amazing shatter effect on his window.

My wave 1 Optimus not bought for a sticker set has a money shot of paint on his face. That misses your point, just providing some levity, I hope.

Since going to tampos sure, nothing like that has happened. I take some issue with the "not giving it a chance" idea, because you're taking my/our opinion and reducing it in a way that makes it sound thoughtless and predetermined on my/our part. On some figures the effects are fine for what they are, Soundwave being a good example. Shockwave's pretty ok too. But line-wide it's inconsistent, Prowl barely has anything on him at all and my opinion on Starscream is that it's a mess - totally cool if you're into it and don't think it's messy though! On Springer it's decent enough on the green but I find it messy on the yellow. Personally I'd rather have clean decos because of the wildly varying results in execution the "damage" tampos yields, but again that's just me.

This particular episode probably didn't get this point across well because I kept it short on purpose - there are several previous episodes where I've said my peace in detail (I think, they run together sometimes) and I didn't want folks that have heard those points before have to sit through it all again. I can see how in the vacuum of this one episode it could sound pointed and douche-y when holding the opposite opinion. Thanks for listening in and providing the feedback

Thanks for your response, I hope I've represented the alternative opinion well enough.

megatronus wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:I guess Ari forgot to message me about going to TFcon

Ha! I'm self-actualizing. The more I say I'm going the more likely it becomes... but in truth it's still up in the air

So your TFcon commitment and my commitment to try Diaclone are equally as flappable at the moment, nice!

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

megatronus wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:I guess Ari forgot to message me about going to TFcon

Ha! I'm self-actualizing. The more I say I'm going the more likely it becomes... but in truth it's still up in the air

So your TFcon commitment and my commitment to try Diaclone are equally as flappable at the moment, nice!

That pretty much sums it up

So, regarding my comment that got made into a question...

What I was really saying is that the modern MP line has changed things. Here's why...

There's always been a line that is effectively the top-tier, bandwagon stuff that defines what a collection "should" be at any given moment. I feel like this has always had three distinct phases: G1, Classics/Generations, and now MP. I'm not saying it's the right thing, but during their heyday, these were the de-facto lines people meant when talking about collecting.

Go back a long way and it was always a matter of how complete your G1 lineup was or how pristine it was. With Generations and Classics, it was always about how far you went to have the latest or most rare version of a character (Henkei, Botcon, Club, 3P, etc). Now it's MP. MP Official, 3P, Sunbow style...whatever.

At any given point during those times if you visited a serious collector's home, you'd probably find essentially the same stuff because if they were serious, there was almost an objective standard for what the best stuff was. Classics took that from G1. MP took that from Classics.

But these days, if I visit a friend's collection it's more likely to be different from my own or another analog for a collector. You can like Generations and it can be one of many flavors. One MP collector may have entirely 3P while another is strictly official Sunbow style.

It's a good thing, an interesting thing. There's an art to displaying and having a collection rather than everyone in the same pool.

Good cast, as always! Thanks for tackling my question. I guess I'm feeling the splitting of the fandom in a different way.

See, most people love the current siege line, but I have a very hard time seeing it as anything more than kids toys, and as such, feel a bit out of place these days. Now, granted, that is totally my own fault. My focus on MP and 3rd party has made it very tough to enjoy "regular" figures. Kinda like Scotty said a few posts above, I'm a bit out of touch with what makes an amazing mainline figure. It makes it very hard to get enjoyment out of regular figures when you get used to such incredibly detailed and complex high end pieces. I guess that is the divide I see, I'm a bit jealous of those of you who still so enjoy regular figures. I love living vicariously through D-max's excitement and enjoyment of discovering and collecting the Beasties. Anyway....



Jetfire is an amazing figure. Not worth its overly inflated cost, like all of Hasbro these days, but amazing non the less.

The "battle damage" of siege sucks massive ass. End of story.

I personally hated the idea of battle damage when I first heard about it but it’s totally grown on me I kind of see both sides.

I don’t think you’re snobbish, it’s a podcast. I listen to chuckle about Transformers. I expect some sass. I didn’t think it was that bad.

Hey I was listening to it again and when you talk about Spinister and mention a movie toy that it reminded you of it made me think of Skyhammer at first:

Transformers Dark of the Moon Skyhammer Gallery
But the shoulders are the cockpit it’s different than I remember. Was that also what you were thinking?

Looking forward to a post-Con episode gentlemen can’t wait.

^Close! D-Max actually pointed out to me what I was thinking of: Studio Series Grimlock's fake dino head.

Came in here with a quick PSA: while working on getting the next episode up, we've accidentally deleted the file for this one. Should be fixed in the next few hours.

Score! Been looking forward to you guys tackling all these reveals. Can’t wait bro.

And speaking of which I love how they did that fake Dino head he’s my favorite Studio figure after BB Prime.

Soo, I listened to SDCC first and I thought would circle back to this one... No, I get a cheesy reording of Jon3.0 doing the "Knowing is half the battle" and his impression of the Narrator doing "its the year 2012. Google Music decided "Why not?" Lets dump him into Episode FORTY-ONE. Talk about a throwback.

AstroTrIn- As the train guy here, the proportions and placement of the wheels fue to the way the panels have to fold bugs me, but I will take a train. And it has a TENDER.

IDW Thunderclash was the Chuck Norris meme to me, and I hate that meme with a fiery passion. But I want a Thunderclash because he was in IDW. ERRGH

I feel like there is a Motorcycle that does the similar waist transformation to Spinister. I remember the legs are almost identical and if you dont catch it id you spin the waist the right direction the redt of the mode doesnt peg in and you have to undo it and spin the waist.
EDIT: I am thinking of Animated Prowl

We heard about an Apeface in the same leak that told us to expect Predaking and the Dinobots well before PotP was announced, so I am with you, I cant help but wonder if this Apeface is an orphaned design that kept getting kicked down the road and finally got a release.
Reflector: individually and with scale, I still like the Botcon Reflectors for scale. But I love love love the combined camera and the way the parts integrate.

The spare shutter disk will fit in the neckhole on the right body. It makes a nice shutter button.

Springer: I still preger the t30'scar mode. Reminds me of a civilian release of the Batman Tumbler tank. I dont like the single tiny little caboopy on the massive car. But your reviews make me want to get him. Curses...

Whats the transformation between car and copter? Is it as straightforward as it looks?

Dont despair Megatronus. i knew that Cloud Roadbuster was Energon Ironhide, but the right combo of colors, the covered in guns, and the fact that I dobt care about Energon Ironhide, this dude has been chilling on my main shelf as a Grnerations Crosshairs paired up with idw Drift, Hound, Aoe Rollbar, as a Generations AOE team. I co-opted the 4 wheel drive brigade name cause I could. To your quedtion, I dont know. This deco of Ironhide as Crosshairs is growing on me after I saw in hand shots (late to this Podcast). I do almost prefer the shoulder width of the voyager Cloud to the stockiness of this Ironhide, and I am already going to have 2 of this mold on the shelf anyway. Plus Cloud Buster looks great with the LG Pinpointer that came with Windblade. My gut says "No" but I feel if I dont buy this and at least try I will be dissappointed. Whether or not they fixed the leg panels on Ratchet may be a decider too.

Jetfire: i canceled my pre-order due to other bills. Now I cam kicking myself. I assune he will make his rounds again (saw the post today of TRU Canada) but man if I missed out I am gonna be mad. And sad.

Nemesis Primal wrote:Do you guys like the Springer mold enough that you would like to see it reused? I'd still like to see a Guidi-inspired Deadlock repaint/retool like the Barricade we're getting, but I've heard mutterings on other sites that the transformation is annoying/overly-involved.

I font have the toy, but a thousand times yes. Full disclosure, I probably would probably play him seperate from Drift, but if I can make the headcanpn fit I am all for more "Different/New" Decepticons, especially Triple Changers.

Counterpunch wrote:

SkyFire Prime wrote:I'm going to be honest, I really like the Battle Damage, I think it looks especially good on Prime and Springer and I'll give you that on some figures, see Starscream it looks overdone.

Either way, your characterization of it is offensive and snobbish.
Also, how ludicrous to go through all the trouble to remove the Battle Damage on Prime when the 35th Anniversary version was leaked and is obviously going to be Battle Damage free.

Further, why the hell not have scrapes and scratches on undying robot warriors that war for thousands of years.

- a critic

Snobbish? Really?

Why isn't it on every exposed edge of the alt mode?

Are we actually assuming that these beings, who are made of metal...paint themselves? That the colors of their body are only a thin layer deep? Maybe. I'm not saying that's entirely absurd. Like, the coloration could be their clothing for example.

...

I think this type of play pattern would have been better served with translucent sticker sheets allowing you to choose the why in which the damage was applied.

I actually think we have pretty well established your first point. On Prime Smokescreen "scanned some new War Paint". In IDW I remember some bots getting new paint jobs, heck we even saw Ratchet painting Pharma's hands. So at a minimum there is the option that if a Cybertronian doeant like their own colors they can scan it or paint it, and on a larger basis the argument that replacemebt parts and prosthetics are "Dead Metal" that have to be painted.

I have to laugh at your second point, Hasbro gives us Stickers and we revolt. They give us Battle Damage and we want them as Stickers. They cannot win for Losing.

Ironhidensh wrote:Good cast, as always! Thanks for tackling my question. I guess I'm feeling the splitting of the fandom in a different way.

See, most people love the current siege line, but I have a very hard time seeing it as anything more than kids toys, and as such, feel a bit out of place these days. Now, granted, that is totally my own fault.
The "battle damage" of

See, I have to disagree with you there. I dobt know many collectors in person, but they said it on the Podcast themselves that the Collector's line is finally the "main line" after years of Classics/Generations plYing second fiddle to the cartoons and Movies, and I dont kbow of anyone who disagrees with that. Yes, Siege IS selling to kids, and in its ways has to play by those kinds of rules, but the designs, the gimmicks, all that is being chosen to play to both sides of the fence. And I would argue that its been that way for a while, because we got the Combiners in Combiner Wars, because those are G1 characters and a relevant gimmick kids would play with, and in Titans Return we got Triggerhappy instead of anothwr random Starscream. All the "Kids" see there is a kick-ass futuristic jet, but the Collectors see a character that they have not gottwn since 1986.

Flashwave wrote:See, I have to disagree with you there. I dobt know many collectors in person, but they said it on the Podcast themselves that the Collector's line is finally the "main line" after years of Classics/Generations plYing second fiddle to the cartoons and Movies, and I dont kbow of anyone who disagrees with that. Yes, Siege IS selling to kids, and in its ways has to play by those kinds of rules, but the designs, the gimmicks, all that is being chosen to play to both sides of the fence. And I would argue that its been that way for a while, because we got the Combiners in Combiner Wars, because those are G1 characters and a relevant gimmick kids would play with, and in Titans Return we got Triggerhappy instead of anothwr random Starscream. All the "Kids" see there is a kick-ass futuristic jet, but the Collectors see a character that they have not gottwn since 1986.

Yeah, I get it, that's why I said most people love it. I recognize that I'm the odd one out on this. I just don't like Siege. To date, I've bought every single figure released. All have gone to my kids, except for Soundwave, Starscream, and Jetfire. I also kept the tapes for Soundwave, but I don't like them. For me, the height of mainline collecting was thrilling 30. For me, I don't think it will ever be as awesome as that again.

Ironhidensh wrote: For me, the height of mainline collecting was thrilling 30. For me, I don't think it will ever be as awesome as that again.

Oddly enough, despite how awesome the past 5 years have been, Thrilling 30 remains a favorite of mine as well. that line gave us some of my favorites in my collection (Swerve, Springer, Brainstorm, Whirl, Trailbreaker, Skids) and some of the more unique designs that are still really fun visually and playing wise (Springer, Swerve, Skids, Bomber Megatron, Brainstorm and the return of headmasters, Sandstorm, Roadbuster, Rhinox, etc)

Ironhidensh wrote:

Flashwave wrote:See, I have to disagree with you there. I dobt know many collectors in person, but they said it on the Podcast themselves that the Collector's line is finally the "main line" after years of Classics/Generations plYing second fiddle to the cartoons and Movies, and I dont kbow of anyone who disagrees with that. Yes, Siege IS selling to kids, and in its ways has to play by those kinds of rules, but the designs, the gimmicks, all that is being chosen to play to both sides of the fence. And I would argue that its been that way for a while, because we got the Combiners in Combiner Wars, because those are G1 characters and a relevant gimmick kids would play with, and in Titans Return we got Triggerhappy instead of anothwr random Starscream. All the "Kids" see there is a kick-ass futuristic jet, but the Collectors see a character that they have not gottwn since 1986.

Yeah, I get it, that's why I said most people love it. I recognize that I'm the odd one out on this. I just don't like Siege. To date, I've bought every single figure released. All have gone to my kids, except for Soundwave, Starscream, and Jetfire. I also kept the tapes for Soundwave, but I don't like them. For me, the height of mainline collecting was thrilling 30. For me, I don't think it will ever be as awesome as that again.

I=Honestly, in spite of what I said, Siege as a whole is not a line I can fully love. I have a few favorites out of it, but I still find myself holding every Siege Figure up to what I have going “Is this really better?”

Hound is a good example for me. I love Siege Hound, his weapons, the alt mode is a tad boxy but cool, and I like that he has fully flat feet, but in spite of all that I still keep looking back at Classics Hound, even though the lack of heels means he falls over a lot and the gun has a stress fracture on its clip. So I totally get where you are coming from. Oddly, two of the ones you named are the ones I can’t get into: Screamer and Soundwave. It’s not the Bots, its the alt modes, and in Soundwave’s case I can’t get over the shattered chest door. It’s a nice touch given the battle damage and an obvious place that would be broken, it’s just not what I want on my Soundwave and its not the alt mode I want. But then, I still think the Predator Spy Plane is the perfect not-Tape Deck alt mode for Soundwave given his spy/datamaster nature.